Discovering Your Attachment Style with Thais Gibson

“Obviously there’s going to be unnecessary friction, challenges, miscommunication and misunderstandings, because we literally have a different set of subconscious rules. So our attachment style has a profound impact on all of our relationships.” - Thais Gibson

Today we’re talking all about attachment theory, and looking at how it affects the way we think, feel and approach all types of situations in our lives. If you’re not sure what attachment theory is, that’s ok, because this Brave By Design guest literally wrote the guide to it!

Thais Gibson is the co-founder of the Personal Development School, as well as the author of Attachment Theory: A Guide to Strengthening the Relationships in Your Life. Throughout her career she has worked with thousands of clients and helped them to positively transform their lives, relationships and goals. Thais is certified in over 13 different areas of therapy, including cognitive behavioral therapy, neurolinguistic programming and transpersonal psychology. By combining traditional psychological methods with the research findings from her practice, she has created cutting-edge therapeutic techniques that help people realize true and significant change in their lives.

In this episode you’re going to learn about the important role that attachment theory is playing in your life subconsciously, and then how you can use it to strengthen both your personal and professional relationships, starting today.  

Connect with Thais: http://www.personaldevelopmentschool.com/

Remember to hit SUBSCRIBE wherever you listen to podcasts!

Free webinar in late January for coaches, consultants and service-based businesses: Learn how Brave by Design became a Top 125 podcast and Laura gained new clients through podcasting. Register at podcastbrandlab.com

What You’ll Hear In This Episode: 

• What attachment theory is, and the four major attachment styles with their characteristics [11:11]
  
  
• Whether or not dating habits are a form of attachment theory [23:26]
  
  
• Three key things that create attraction at a subconscious level [28:33]
  
  
• What we need to know about the dynamics of our business relationships [33:32]
  
  
• How to approach coping mechanisms and reprogramming, and a specific tool you can use to start doing this [41:01] 

Additional Links & Resources:

Thais’ Instagram & Facebook Group 

Her YouTube Channel & LinkedIn

Her Book, Attachment Theory: A Guide to Strengthening the Relationships in Your Life

Resources:

Follow Laura on LinkedIn and Instagram

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Transcript

Thais Gibson: 0:00

Obviously, there's going to be unnecessary friction and challenges and miscommunication and misunderstandings, because we literally have a different set of subconscious rules. So our towel style has a profound impact on all of our relationships.

Laura Khalil: 0:15

Welcome to brave by design. I'm your host, Laura Khalil. I'm an entrepreneur, coach and speaker. I love thinking bait, exploring the power of personal development and sharing the best strategies from thought leaders and pioneers in business to empower ambitious women and allies to bravely rise and thrive. Let's get started. Hey, everyone, welcome to this episode of brave by design. Welcome into 2021. I am so happy to be back with you. After our December hiatus. This is me your host, Laura Khalil. And I hope you all had a wonderful holiday break, we have a great slate of new episodes coming up for you through the winter to get you through those winter months. And today's in particular, is pretty cool. I'm going to be talking with tyese Gibson, all about attachment styles, she is the expert on attachment styles, I cannot wait for you to hear this. So if you have heard of attachment styles, and wonder how that affects your relationships, or you don't know what it is at all, I want you to stay tuned. Some other updates I want to give you before we roll into the episode, we are going to be pausing our Monday mindset episodes for the foreseeable future. And I may be tacking on as I will today, a little bit more inspiration with certain episodes before we kick off into the actual interviews. So if you enjoyed those, we've got a huge backlog of Monday mindset episodes that you can go through, or you can listen to our regularly scheduled episodes for some inspiration during your week. And you know, it's the start of 2021. And if you're like me, you probably saw at the end of December, beginning of January, tons of people talking about goal setting for the year resolutions, mindset resets and all kinds of things like that. And I do love using the end of December as a period to sort of think evaluate, recalibrate, however, you don't just need to do that, at the beginning of the year. Ideally, you'll be doing that every month, especially if you're a business owner, you want to be doing retrospectives pretty frequently. But I want to talk about something before we jump into our episode today about professional identity crises, because I know that many of you have been experiencing this experiencing something like a professional identity crisis in 2020. Right. And I want to tell you a little bit about mine and how I've learned to overcome it. So 2020 was supposed to be the year that my public speaking career took off. Whoops, that was not happening. And you know, I have this dream of traveling around the world and speaking and you know what, that's not going to happen? anytime soon. Right? So, back in March of 2020, I was feeling pretty frozen and really questioning what to do. And you know, I know I'm not alone. I mean, over the last year, I've spoken to so many people about their professional identities, and how they're massively shifting. I've met bartenders who are becoming computer programmers, marketers that are starting nonprofits, and even sound engineers becoming handyman. There are so many shifts. And for those of you who may be experiencing this now or know someone who's experiencing this, this is a message for you. The problem is this kind of shifting can be very, very hard for us on an emotional psychological level, we can get very attached to our identity, through the labels we give ourselves. For example, I'm a teacher, I'm a mother, I'm an MBA, I'm a marketer, whatever those labels are for you. And it can be very hard to move forward because we continue to hang on to who we were, instead of opening the door to who we are becoming. See there's a transformation happening when we have to let a part of ourselves go and open the door into who we are becoming but how do you open the door if you can't find the friggin key. So I had been assessing what to do with my career for most of 2020 when I had a call with Jodie Hume, she's coming on an upcoming episode of brave by design that will actually be out at the end of January. And Jodie Hume talks all about how to make tough choices. Do you want to do Option A or Option B, right? That's her specialty. And so we recorded this episode. And after we were chatting, and I was sort of telling her a little bit about my analysis paralysis, not knowing what to do now that speaking was kind of frozen. And she helped me see that the label was the problem. So here's what I mean, I had to break down the elements of the career I loved, instead of seeing them through the label of a quote unquote speaker or quote unquote, podcaster, or coach. So let's use the analogy to make this really clear. If you're like me, you have probably been doing a lot of cooking and baking this year. Okay. Or 2020? Certainly I have. So I think about breaking down the elements of your career like you would the ingredients in a recipe. Let's take pasta carbonara. I am obsessed. Actually, I love all pasta. I'll be honest with you, and Italy, it's actually on the first place for me to visit. Once the pandemic is over, and I plan on going on a pasta making tour. I was supposed to actually go in July for my birthday. Obviously, that did not happen. So maybe in 2021 2022, that'll happen. But anyway, back to pasta carbonara. The raw ingredients are pasta, eggs, cheese, bacon, and maybe some cream, right? Pretty simple. If I just look at the ingredients, I could remix those ingredients to make a bunch of different things like scrambled eggs, a creamy omelet, cheesy pasta, bacon and eggs, eggs in a pasta nest, and probably a dozen other things. If I look at my career as a speaker, and podcaster There are also key ingredients. Some of those for me include vocal work, interview skills, deep listening, teaching, marketing, knowledge, community engagement business know how networking, you get the idea, right? So I broke down the key skills that drove me towards podcasting and speaking. And then I took a step back, and I thought about what themes in my career, continue to follow me no matter what I do. And I bet you have some of those too. And when I saw everything disassembled, just the raw ingredients, I could mix and match new offerings and ideas without being constricted by my own labels. So what happens when we remix? Well, as I remixed podcasts, coaching and consulting began to come into view, it suddenly seems so clear, I couldn't believe it had been staring me in the face the whole time. I can still speak, I can still teach and coach and I can still use my marketing know how. But I've learned to remix them in a new form that I love. And that is very much needed in the year ahead. So if you're in the midst of a professional identity crisis, I want you to put on your metaphorical apron, and chef's hat and let's remix your career. All right, grab a pen and paper, pause this podcast and come back and write down these questions. Number one, what are the raw ingredients of my career that I love? Write them down on index cards and Notes app. You know, you could even do a dry erase board if you want. Question number two, what are the common themes that I always find myself drawn to in life? write those down? Number three, what do people and businesses really need from me that incorporates these themes and ingredients? Now, try lots of combinations, you got those three questions, try all your combos, you know, try to make those different meals, so to speak. Listen to your intuition for what feels right. It should feel expansive, exciting, and inspiring to you. Now, after you've done a little bit of a remix, you've got to take action, you don't just sit on the idea. That's not going to change a damn thing. Let me give you another analogy around that. Because this is another area where I see a lot of people getting tripped up. You don't walk into a restaurant, and the chef hands you a menu and he says, here's what I'm thinking of making but I haven't actually made it because I don't know if anyone's gonna like it. So you know, give me a sense of what kinda you want. And you know, maybe I'll see if I can throw something together? Absolutely not. You'd never walk into a restaurant like that. Instead, you try stuff. Chefs put things on the menu, so they see what sells and what can be swapped out. So you've got to start trying, you've got to take action towards your career remix. Tell a friend, update your LinkedIn profile, reconnect with your network and see where it takes you. So if you like this exercise, if you think this is cool, let me know about it. Let me know how this helped you. It's certainly helped me as we move into 2021 and my career begins to shift towards more podcasts coaching and consulting. It's an area I never would have considered a year ago. But today, it seems like we're just right for more opportunities to connect through this incredible medium. So friends, I hope that's helpful for you. And I want you to stay tuned and listen to this incredible episode we have with tyese Gibson on attachment styles. Everyone, welcome to this episode of brave by design. Friends, I cannot wait for you to meet our guest today. tyese Gibson, she is an author, speaker and co creator of the personal development school, she's extremely passionate about personal growth, the subconscious mind and connecting with others with an MA in over 13 certifications ranging from CBT to hypnosis t strives to continuously learn and grow. She is best known for her contributing work and research on attachment theory and the impact of attachment trauma on our adult romantic relationships. And today, we are going to talk all about attachment theory. So if you don't know what that is, tune in, because this is majorly impacting your life. tyese Welcome to brave by design.

Thais Gibson: 11:15

Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Laura Khalil: 11:18

I am so excited to have you here as we were talking before we recorded and I was just saying I have been gobbling up your YouTube channel and your work because I think attachment theory is one of the most interesting things that we're all learning about. And so could we start by just saying what the heck is attachment theory?

Thais Gibson: 11:37

Yeah, I like to give like an analogy to represent it because I feel like it's easier to digest than just the theory of everything. And so you can sort of identify or imagine that we each have our own individual attachment style. And this is originally the work of john Bowlby. It's been around for a long time, but there's a lot of building upon it more recently. And the idea is that we basically attach to our caregivers in a specific way in our childhood. And these become the rules that we learn to play by in all of our relationships. Now, these rules are basically subconscious programs that we have. And you could compare having a different attachment style to playing a board game with somebody in your life and having a completely different rulebook for that board game. Like, obviously, there's going to be unnecessary friction and challenges and miscommunication and misunderstandings, because we literally have a different set of subconscious rules. So our ATOL style has a profound impact on all of our relationships, everything from our romantic relationships to our friendships, our familial relationships, and even our co working or working relationships on a regular basis.

Laura Khalil: 12:42

Because as you said, we have different rule books or playbooks for how we are interacting and communicating with people. That's so interesting. So can you walk me through? What are these attachment styles? Yes, absolutely. So

Thais Gibson: 12:59

there's four major attachment styles. The first one is secure. And I'll give you a little bit of background and some of the core traits and qualities and ones that maybe listeners can identify themselves or sort of hear which when they think they may do this. So the first one is secure. And obviously, this is the one that we're trying to sort of strive for, and the securely attached individual in their childhood often become secure because they have some consistency in the way that their parents did. their feelings are often held space for and if a child expresses emotion, a caregiver will tend to them. Usually there's a lot of eye contact, which makes a child at their very early stages, when we're most easily programmed at a subconscious level, makes the child feel very seen and connected to and attune to, and their needs are met. And so they basically learn as a byproduct of all of this that I am worthy just as I am, because I get love just as I am I'm not trying to earn it, I don't have to do anything, you know, and so confident they feel more connected, they feel like their feelings and needs are worthy of being seen, heard, understood, expressed. And obviously as a byproduct of all of that they learn to trust people and trust interpersonal relationships. So they often go on in their adult lives to bond or connect more easily with other people to feel safe in terms of all their interactions to feel more self confidence and self esteem as a human being and to feel worthy of receiving love and having their needs met because this was their natural

Unknown: 14:19

grooming

Thais Gibson: 14:20

instead of experiences. And then we have our three insecurely attached styles, okay? And sort of one end of the continuum in a way we have our dismissive avoidant. And then dismissive avoidant is the individual in their childhood you often gets some form of emotional neglect, but can be you know, complete neglect physical and emotional or it can be more just fly under the radar caregivers just aren't emotionally available and attuning properly to their child and while they meet all the physical needs are not necessarily holding space for a lot of emotional nurturing. And so this individual as a child can't look at their parents and go, Oh, you know, my parents are emotionally unavailable. This child goes, Oh, there must be something wrong with me that I'm not getting these needs met and they feel unsafe in their environment through that disconnection and not really feeling like there's some kind of bond to know whether they ever will abandon them or not. And so in this person's adult life, they often go on to feel afraid of being vulnerable at all, they feel unsafe in their interpersonal relationships, they usually carry a lot of stores of conscious shame, and feel like oh, something's wrong with me, I'm defective, I don't get my needs met. And they'll often be the people in romantic relationships that don't want to commit that don't want to get too close, they feel trapped in connection, they need a lot of time to self soothe and self regulate. And they feel like direct communication is scary, and safe, these sorts of things. And so that's sort of one end of the continuum. And the opposing end in a way of the continuum is our anxious, preoccupied, intangible, and the anxious preoccupied person in childhood gets a lot out of their emotional connections from their parents. But there's some level of inconsistency it can be that like, mom's really warm, dad's really cold or both parents are really warm and loving. But they both work a lot. And this inconsistency triggers these big fears of abandonment. Oh, and so this individual has all these core wounds and fears around being abandoned, being alone being excluded, being disliked disconnected. And these fears like basically run a major portion of their personality in the way that they interact with others. And these individuals in their adult lives can be the people pleasers can be the ones always overcompensating, the ones that can come across in some of their close relationships as needy or clingy or wanting to hold on to things. They won't advocate for themselves a lot of the time because they'll feel like oh, no, you know, what if I get rejected in some way, and they often feel like they're not good enough, because they're putting themselves through this overcompensation all the time to try to avoid being rejected in any form. And so this is our anxious preoccupied Okay, then our very last one yes, is the fearful avoidant, and the fearful avoidant individuals sometimes referred to as anxious avoidant or disorganized, the fearful avoidant basically has both sides of the attachment spectrum in a way so they have some of the anxiousness the fear of being alone or abandoned, and then they have some of the dismissiveness where they fear closeness and, and they don't trust it. And this is usually because this person comes from some kind of trauma. Yeah, you say like in childhood, but remember, the brain is neuroplastic. So literally, this can be in somebody's adult life that they are exposed to painful programs that also take them from secure to insecure, or it can also be that we are insecurely attached when we do the subconscious reprogramming work and become secure. But a lot of our childhood is where it originates. Okay, so usually there's some kind of pain point for the fearful of where there's broken trust. And it could be that a caregiver is an alcoholic, and so you can never trust are they drinking? Are they sober? It could be that the parents are violence, fighting alive, things like you love, but you don't trust connection. And so this person in their adult life is the person in their relationships, that tends to be like, oh, come here, get close to me. And you get close enough, no, no stay back. And they have this like hot, cold swinging of the bed. Wow, time. And they do tend to really struggle with trust, they can struggle with authority a lot

Unknown: 18:15

of the time,

Thais Gibson: 18:16

they can struggle with wanting to rely on people and feeling safe, they tend to be very, like I have to be hyper independent. I have to do it all myself because I can't trust anybody to depend on. And a lot of their wounds are the fear of abandonment, fear of being disconnected all the things that the anxious individual has. But also the same core wounds is a dismissive like fear of being trapped, helpless, powerless, unsafe, and they tend to experience a lot of guilt and shame very easily.

Laura Khalil: 18:44

I have heard the fearful avoidant type sometimes described in the phrase I hate you don't leave me. Yeah. And so this thing of like they can kind of like, as you're saying, Go both sides. And it's like what's going on here? And I think I've actually dated someone like that. And it was the most confusing relationship of my life. And it lasted about two months and I was like, I don't know what's wrong with you, but I can't I can't fix this. So I'm out.

Thais Gibson: 19:15

For sure. So I personally was a fearful avoidant, I did a lot of reprogramming work and, and all that stuff and and part of you know what brought me to this journey. But it's also very confusing for that individual and their internal reality because they want closeness, they want love, they care. And they tend to be very sensitive individuals. And then when you get too close, they feel so easily triggered. They have like so many minds in their mind field, so many subconsciously programmed triggers. So then you get too close to like a porcupine, they have all their stuff out pushing you away. And so you get a lot of mixed signals because a lot of their internal reality is full of mixed signals, which

Laura Khalil: 19:51

is so interesting. Wow, that sounds just personally to me like a really stressful way to exist in the world. So we have these four types. And it sounds kind of like secure attachment is where we want to be. But we have these other attachment styles that our subconscious programming often from childhood and it's just, it's just there and we don't realize it. Can people be on the spectrum of you know, I'm pretty secure. But sometimes I have this dismissive avoidant part of me Can that exist? Or is it one or the other?

Thais Gibson: 20:25

Absolutely. So it's definitely not like an all or nothing type thing. It's definitely on a continuum. And we can have qualities of specific attachment style. So sometimes we'll say like, secure leaning, anxious or secure, leaning, dismissive or fearful, avoidant, leaning anxious if you're more on the anxious side of fearful avoidance, and so you can definitely have sort of like edges of another attachment, okay, qualities and characteristics.

Laura Khalil: 20:47

And so tell us, let me ask you this, I meet a lot of women who are in their 40s, or even as a mid 30s, and up who are highly successful in their careers, and who for the life of them cannot meet someone to date, is that related in any way to attachment theory,

Thais Gibson: 21:11

I would say 100%. So, so here's something that's really interesting to note is that we have a conscious mind that processes roughly 40 to 60 bits per second of data. And we have a subconscious mind that processes roughly 1 billion bits per second of data. And our conscious mind is responsible for roughly three to 5% of our behaviors, decisions, actions, emotions, and our subconscious mind 95 to 97%. So what happens a lot in a way that we don't necessarily realize is that we have a whole bunch of these subconscious programs, basically, belief systems, ideas, concepts about the way we work the way other people work. And if we're not aware, and we don't surface some of these beliefs, and understand what might be sort of creating these invisible barriers between themselves and somebody else, we might have, let's say, for example, somebody who's dismissive, and dismisses have a lot of something called deactivating strategies. And it's these subconscious excuses and beliefs and stories they use to keep people at bay. Oh, because they're afraid of being vulnerable. They're afraid of connection, they're afraid of intimacy. And this is largely because of painful past experiences that they read project, the likelihood of recurring out onto the external world. And so somebody who's dismissive or somebody who's fearful of waiting for that matter, which probably a lot of successful female entrepreneurs will fall into one of those two categories, a lot will be secure as well. But if there's an overcompensation if there is like, if you are somebody who recognizes as somebody who's listening to this, that you're actually actively like, you know, not ever meeting somebody and sort of keeping people at bay and things like this, chances are, you'd be in one of those two categories. Okay, because a lot of them are also very hard workers for a lot of different reasons. But, but what you'll see is that you can have these subconscious belief systems that say, Oh, well, you know, all men are this or all women are that or, you know, and a lot of what happens in the programming of the avoidant attachment styles is when people get too close, instead of looking through this filter of, oh, what's good about them, or you know, it's normal to have some flaws, you are actively looking for everything that's wrong. And it's like somebody comes in, and instead of going, Oh, are these solvable problems? And can we communicate through these things? It's like, Oh, they did this on the first date. So automatic right off. And, and so from like, feeling like you can't communicate your own needs feeling like it's unsafe to be vulnerable. And so sometimes we look for flaws, and a lot of our subconscious programming, we think, oh, we just can't meet anybody. And that can be true, of course. But a lot of the time, there's more to it, that's actually happening at a subconscious level. And we have these deactivating strategies that are keeping people at bay, and actively looking for their flaws, instead of accepting them, communicating about them and sort of thinking that it's possible to work through them and, and have a healthy dynamic.

Laura Khalil: 23:59

You know, what I find so interesting about that, when we talk about looking for other people's flaws, and if they make, quote, unquote, mistake, if they do something we don't like they're out there, you know, we can't have them. I wonder, when I hear you say that, I wonder if the individual also judges themselves that harshly if they see themselves as Oh, I can't make any mistakes. I can't be wrong. Is that something we also

Thais Gibson: 24:23

notice? Excellent question. So I would say a lot of us is the shadow in that way. Which basically means that we tend to express outwardly our internal relationship that we have to ourselves, which is very true. But I would say four different attachment styles that happens in different ways. So fearful avoidance 100% tend to be like hyper perfectionist, very hard working, because they really usually learned at some point in their childhood. I have to be perfect to survive because they usually felt very unsafe in their home. So they're always walking on eggshells, and they'll take that out in their lives and so 100% they can get into dynamics where it's like, what you're I'm perfect, but I have to be perfect like No way. And so there can be resentment and oh, wow place. just miserable wins, on the other hand, tend to not really, they can be very perfectionistic in like certain areas like maybe in their work, but not in the way that they carry themselves in relationships. And it does tend to be a little bit more one sided, where they tend to hyper judge others in relationship dynamics and under judged themselves, or not under judged, but maybe like, not hold themselves to the same standard because they're a little bit more preoccupied with looking for flaws and others. This won't spill into every relationship, but it will into the relationships where they have to be the most vulnerable. So definitely romantic relationships.

Laura Khalil: 25:40

No, let me ask you about the anxious preoccupied What are they looking for in relationship when they're trying to engage with a different person? Yeah,

Thais Gibson: 25:49

excellent question. so anxious preoccupied, are sort of known for like sometimes even settling into relationships and dedicating themselves to relationships, that they may not be truly fulfilled in. Because once they build any bonds, they fear abandonment. And because the brain is more wired to avoid pain, they'll actually prioritize not disconnecting, over finding like the perfect partner for them. And so I often say to people, you know, the anxious, preoccupied person is the one on the date. That's like, do you like me? Do it? Am I good enough? Are you gonna reject me? How am I doing? How am I showing up? And it's really like people pleasing and try new myself. And they can be very charismatic and charming and beautiful people. But they are so invested in like me, do you like me? instead of like, what we shouldn't be doing on a date or interactions is, you know, do you like me? And how, how's it going? But, like, do I think that you fit into my life? Right? I think you're a good fit for me. And the argument is very one sided, and the dismissive. avoidant is sort of like the exact opposite, where they're like, looking for all the flaws. And Do I like you? And will you fit into my life? And they're very nitpicky? And the anxious preoccupied is like, exactly the opposite.

Laura Khalil: 26:59

And then the securely attached person, how are they? What's their style? Like,

Thais Gibson: 27:04

they will look at both. And there's some really interesting differences is that they'll look, you know, do you like me, you know, do I fit into your life and your space, and they use the dating phase of a relationship to collect information and to bet people and to understand what's going on. But they will also be like, you know, how are you going to fit into my life? And are there things that I don't like about you are red flags, and so they're very balanced in their ability to look from both perspectives. And they're also, you know, not going to run at the first sign of a problem. They're willing to assess it and think like, okay, is this a solvable problem? They're willing to communicate about it. So if there's something they don't like, they might say, you know, this is a concern for me. And what do you think about this? Is this a changeable factor? And so they're not gonna, they're not thinking in all or nothing extremes. It's like, let's communicate, they trust their powers to work through things to talk about things. And they trust themselves to be able to do the same thing. Wow, I

Laura Khalil: 28:00

imagine. For our listeners right now, you guys must just be I am just taking this in and like, Whoa, I wonder where I am on the scale. And by the way, even if you're married, this stuff still applies to you, because you're in partnership with someone, right?

Thais Gibson: 28:19

Absolutely. Yeah.

Laura Khalil: 28:20

So we've got these four types and do kind of like magnets, do certain types tend to attract to other types?

Thais Gibson: 28:27

Yes. So people are rarely listening. So interesting. People are rarely with the same attachment style as they are. Oh, wow. So what we'll see often as the three things that create like attraction at a subconscious level are number one. This is sort of like a dense topic, but like people who express your repressed traits. So for example, if let's say I grew up in an authoritarian household where I wasn't allowed to set boundaries, if I did, I would get punished. my subconscious mind will adapt to that environment and go, well, setting boundaries is bad. speaking up is bad. People pleasing gets my needs met, so that's good. So I might repress my assertiveness, if I grew up in that kind of home, right, okay. So then, because the subconscious mind wants wholeness and wants equilibrium, if I can't get that wholeness inside of myself, I'm going to try to get it through somebody else. And so we'll attach to people just like we see people attach and childhood to their toys or belongings that the subconscious mind literally creates these attachment bonds to their external things in reality, and will attach to people to try to get a sense of wholeness. So then we might find ourselves really attracted to somebody who expresses assertiveness, because it's something we've repressed and if we're bonded to them, our subconscious mind derive a sense of wholeness through that. So we're often attracted to people who express different things from us. And another big feature that creates attraction is our subconscious comfort zone of what love is. And so if we had a parent who was dismissive of us, we're like, oh, dismissiveness feels so familiar.

Laura Khalil: 30:01

Even though it might not feel nourishing, it's familiar. Exactly.

Thais Gibson: 30:06

And the subconscious mind goes, familiarity equals safety, safety equals survival. And so we like this. And so even though we might go through pain, the subconscious mind is derived, it's like focusing on your survival, not how emotionally happy you. And so we might go through pain, but the subconscious is like, so what we went through pain we survive, so that stuff works. And so it's really important to recognize like those two, two of the three factors and other has to do with your needs, and it's not as relevant. But those two key factors, we're very likely to be attracted to people who are sort of like the opposite of us who are expressing our repressed parts of you think of like an anxious on one side of it. And a dismissive on the other, you know, the anxious is vulnerable is open. They're often dismissing themselves dismissing their own feelings, but so focused on somebody else. Here's a dismissive person who the exact opposite in many ways, you know, they're often dismissing other people, they're almost in an anxious relationship to themselves, like, I need enough time to my, my self soothing, you know, are people infringing on my boundaries, and so they often become very magnetized to one another at a subconscious level. That is fascinating.

Laura Khalil: 31:15

When I started brave by design a year ago, I had no idea that it would actually help me build multiple revenue streams for my business. If you are a coach, consultant, or service provider who loves podcasting, and wants to learn how I got brave by design into the top 125 career podcasts, built five figures of revenue from the podcast and grew my brand. I'm offering a free webinar later this January, head on over to podcast brand lab.com. For all the details, that's podcast brand lab.com. I want to ask you about business relationships. Because I meet people and I have been in this situation where, when I worked in the full time world for many years, I seemed to attract bosses that were incredibly, it felt like they were incredibly bullying, abusive, not nice. And I kind of wonder for people who go through these cycles where they do we look for bosses that similar to looking for relationships, where it's kind of like, what is going on here? Like, why do I keep encountering these types of people that I work with? How much is our external environment? And how much is like what I have to work on as a human being?

Thais Gibson: 32:47

It's a great question. So it's a combination of both. So one thing that is very true and valid is that like, we were talking about the the conscious mind processes like such a small amount of information compared to your subconscious. So it is an absolute possibility, and a very strong reality for a lot of people where you might have an interview with a boss, and you know, maybe you're deciding between two companies, and this boss in a way that your conscious mind doesn't register, does remind you of your mom who was really critical, or you know, write Ruby. And so you're like, Oh, yeah, that just feels just something about that guy legs or that woman that I liked. Yeah, you know. And so that's an absolute ingredient that can take place for people. And then there's also this other factor, which is, even though we're attracted to that, and it feels familiar, it doesn't mean that in a more pre conscious level, it's not causing us emotional pain. And so how a trigger works is you can think of a trigger as being like, well, first of all, your subconscious mind soars every memory ever, with all the emotion attached to it. it consolidates memories over time, but the emotion pretty much stayed the same thing you can think of like, if I, let's pretend I had a lot of experiences, and childhood was a very critical mother. And I have all these stored memories with all that painful emotion of criticism. I'm also going to be hyper sensitized to criticism from other people, especially if they're in an authority role that reminds me of the authority role of a parent. Or if we were bullied in childhood, and then you have that same experience, like it's magnified, because basically, somebody's a catalyst in your personal space right now. And they're pushing this button and all this stored emotion from your subconscious mind is flooding to the surface. So now when you're triggered, you're experiencing the event in this moment, and how painful it is combined with all the stored unresolved emotion that you haven't processed from the past. And that's why it feels so awful.

Laura Khalil: 34:40

So taste This is coming. I interrupt you for a second. why this is so critical, and I hope people are listening right now because what you're saying is so important. So if I meet someone if I let's say, I have a boss, and they say something to me, that triggers me that really like oh my gosh, how the heck could they say that to me? How could they speak to me? That way, there's an important thing I hear you saying, which is, well hang on a second. Are you to your point, pulling in all your prior memories, all your prior trauma or prior emotions and putting it on that? And what degree it is actually their responsibility and how and how they speak to you. Because I think sometimes a lot of people think they're being triggered by bad people, when really what's happening is it's just unresolved trauma.

Thais Gibson: 35:31

Yes, yes. So I want to be really clear as well that it doesn't there absolutely can be abusive people in the workplace. Yes. And there can also be programming where it's like, Oh, we don't speak up to abusive people. We don't say anything, we don't set boundaries. And that can be somebody's like, you know, I talked about the people pleasing child because they return parents. And so that can be a problem as well. And so sometimes it's not just let me work on my own stuff on my own triggers. But it can also be like, let me speak up and set a boundary and do something about the unknown. The environment I'm in whether it's like, communicate, or if the communication is not working, it could be okay, make an exit strategy and provide, like nice things are also important to recognize. But we can't go directly to the like, oh, let me communicate and fight back unless we question ourselves first, because then we don't get the opportunity to take the Golden Nugget out of the situation that might be there. And we can also be in a space where we are overreacting because there's no such actual thing as an overreaction, whatever overreacting to our own internal reality, we just have a lot more stuff there that we're not noticing. So I always say to people, like it's not the situation that's causing your suffering, it's the meaning you give to it. So if I'm like, 10 out of 10 upset because I just spilled my water. You know, somebody from the outside could go, Oh, that's ridiculous. It's just water. Right? Right. I if for me, spilling water was in front of people. And I learned in my childhood or a past relationship that that makes me unworthy and unlovable and all these different things, that me spilling the water, my brain

Unknown: 37:05

and my emotional

Thais Gibson: 37:06

system is literally responding to that experience as if I'm an unworthy unlovable person. And this is my confirmation. So yes, I'm going to be 10 out of 10 upset because that's a really heavy thing to believe. And so what we have to ask ourselves when we feel triggered, okay, what is the meaning I'm giving to the situation? And then we have to question that meaning? Can I 100% know that that's valid? Because maybe my boss is critical to me, and I make that mean that I'm not good enough? And I'm going to be a failure in life? And is it really even fair, that we let somebody else's external actions determine our level of self worth? And whether we're going to be a success or failure in life? Absolutely not.

Laura Khalil: 37:45

preached as preach?

Thais Gibson: 37:48

give ourselves the opportunity to go Yeah, what am I making this mean? Yeah. Is it even true? Or is this me just carrying a past experience? I couldn't emotionally process as a child, and my subconscious is projecting that back out onto this now. And once we've cleaned that up, then we can ask ourselves, okay, what do I need to feel relief right now? And how can I get that need met? And then maybe that's speaking up setting a boundary communicating to your boss, listen, the way you're speaking to me is inappropriate. I need you to change the way you talk, like whatever it might be. But we have to ask ourselves that internal peace first,

Laura Khalil: 38:20

that is so important. And yes, I love everything you're saying. And I think it goes to this point that I like to talk about a lot on the shows that we co create our reality. So there's things going on out there that you have no control over. And then there's yourself and how you respond to those things and how you show up in situations and self examine and question yourself, that can really help at least I like to say, keep your side of the road clean. Yes. So that you can sort of continue to move forward. Even if other people are a mess. You don't necessarily got it. You don't have to fix everyone, that's okay.

Thais Gibson: 38:54

Absolutely. And you don't have to buy it. Like, it's so easy. There's like this old Buddhist story that I used to like, and I'm probably gonna butcher it now. Because it's been a while, but something about basically there's a man and his wife loves the Buddhist teachings. And he's going through and he starts to get jealous that his wife is always talking about the Buddha. And one day, he goes to the Buddhist house, and he's like, had enough and he's really angry. And he goes, and he starts yelling at this man. I'm sorry, the man yells at the Buddha. And the Buddha just kind of like patiently waits. And eventually he says, okay, Are you finished? And the guy's like, yes, I'm done. And the Buddha goes, so if you come to my house, and I cook you a meal, and you refuse to eat, and you go home, to whom does the food belong? And the mangoes will that belongs to you because it's your house and your food and I didn't eat it. And the Buddha says, well, the same goes for your anger. Like if I refuse to digest it, if I refuse to take it on, that anger just falls back on you. And I think we spent a lot of time as human beings being like, oh, some He's moody and we take it on or somebody's not happy with us, we make it ours and and it's so important to create a separation to be like, you know what? That's their business and like, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to just keep my side of the road clean. I'm actually not going to go try to clean up somebody else's side of the road when it's not mine ultimately to do.

Laura Khalil: 40:18

Oh, love it. Oh, that is just so beautiful. I love that story. I want to ask you one more question before we I mean, we could talk for hours, let's be honest. But I want to ask you one more question before we end the show. And that is, and this is admittedly a big one for people who have, okay, they've been listening, they've been hearing their attachment styles, they've been thinking OMG, I might be one of those, or I am one of those. How do I deal with this? What do I do? Is there a good first step that we can recommend to the audience for? How do you begin to approach this. And I also want to say just quickly, because I think he would say this as well, this is a no shame zone. So it's okay. Whatever you are like, Don't beat yourself up for it, it's okay, it's probably really served you in many ways and helped you to survive, I would imagine

Thais Gibson: 41:12

100%. And so like, you hit the nail on the head. These are coping mechanisms. And also this is your attachment style isn't some like, thing that you have to be for the rest of your life or anything like that. It's just a subconscious set of rules that you bought for how to relate to others. It's not even your fault, it does become a responsibility. Of course, if we find that there's parts of it that are impacting us negatively. And we want to do that work to clean that up. But it's not like Oh, you're this dysfunctional person or anything like that is that our rules, we might have to go in and clean up a little bit. So. So what I always tell people is, we can't really create massive change unless we engage the subconscious mind in the process. And so I guess I'll leave a tool you can use for reprogramming. So you can think of it one of the two biggest factors that impact us relative to our attachment style are basically the beliefs we carry about ourselves and other people, and the needs we have from ourselves and other people. And you can think of your needs. And it's so interesting. Sometimes when we go through childhood or painful relationship experiences, we'll look at our needs, and we will be imprinted by how other people treat our needs. And that becomes its own subconscious comfort zone. And so then we'll treat our own needs that way. So for example, you might see somebody dismissive avoidant, they're emotionally neglected in childhood, and how do they grow up? They grew up neglecting their own emotions, because that's their subconscious comfort zone. I always tell people, when it comes to reprogramming start by looking at their needs, and going, Okay, what were the greatest unmet needs. And you can look at, like, needs list online, we have like a free needs list on our website, like, and just take a moment to sit with that and really think about like, what were the greatest unmet needs that I had? And then ask yourself, How am I treating those needs in the relationship to myself, and what you'll almost always see is that unless you've been asked to work on these things, you have actually kept this painful trauma alive by not meeting the needs that you really needed. And that weren't meant for you. And we usually keep those knees on them their relationship to ourselves, because we don't have a model for something better or different. Right? And again, our subconscious goes, well, that works. Will we survive that pain? Yeah. So part of healing is like we have to start meeting our unmet needs. And we have to start advocating for those needs, from our relationships to others as well. It starts with relationships itself first. So we bring that out into the external world second. And the other big thing is that what are the biggest stories I carry about myself? Isn't that I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy. I'm not lovable. I'm disrespected by everybody, I don't belong, I'll be excluded. Like, what are the big stories we catch ourselves telling whenever we're triggered? And you can find those by when you are triggered or upset, asking yourself the question, What am I making this mean about myself. And then what we have to actually start doing is we have to start changing the story. Because unless we do, we're actually firing and wiring those same neural patterns over and over again. So we're actually like hardwired to trauma and worlds, to a certain degree. But if we change the story, and we start questioning it, and we start cognitively reframing or experience, repetition plus emotion reprograms, the subconscious mind. So basically, what happens is if we're like, No, I am good enough. My boss being critical doesn't make me not good enough. And I'm putting up and if we look for pieces of evidence, like I'm good enough, because I show up, I work hard, I always try my best I'm always growing. If we look for pieces of evidence, that's the language of the subconscious mind. So when we can source our stories, question them. reframe something that empowers us, instead of just keeping that repetitive cycle of that same old painful story of trauma alive. And we rinse and repeat over time that becomes our new neural paradigm. And this is the way we see ourselves in our world and the old set of beliefs gets to ask atrophy over time, just like muscles that are grown over time. And this is how we can really, truly reprogram and change our system. Friends,

Laura Khalil: 45:09

I hope you have been listening to this and getting the just the drops of information here because this is so critical, becoming an active participant in questioning those thoughts, those feelings, the reality that you are in. Wow, I mean, that is that is so powerful. And that kind of self reflection. I know, personally, and I know, you know, can lead to really, really profound change in your life and profound ways of engaging with others. I mean, you know, I want to circle back quickly to the story I told about always having those really difficult bosses, because this is really, this is very important for people to understand. My dad was real tough on me. You know, that's where that came from. My dad was very critical, was not very emotional and was like, let's go, let's get it done. Let's move. And if you kind of made a mistake, that wasn't okay. And so, to tell you at this point, what did I look for? I look for my dad, because I knew him. And I knew. And by the way, I say that my dad's a great guy. Just like your parents, in many cases are probably wonderful people. Everyone's often doing the best that they can with the information they have. But until you become aware of the story been aware of, you know what, I actually don't need that anymore. That doesn't serve me because I'm going to replace it with something better. That's more resourceful that feels more life affirming. That's how we actually begin to change. So tyese Gibson. Oh my gosh, what a pleasure to have you on brave by design for our audience, who I'm sure is just ready to gobble up more information about you and about attachment theory and re parenting. Where can they go? How do they learn more?

Thais Gibson: 47:02

Yeah, so if you want to learn more, I have a YouTube channel. It's personal development, school, dash tyese Gibson and I put free content there every single day, and lots about all this stuff and how to reprogram your subconscious. And then if you want to do a really deep dive with like workbooks, pre recorded courses, all the deep dive stuff. I have a personal development school. And we have about 35 courses. I add two new courses every month and I do four live calls with everybody a week and that's that personal development school calm as well.

Unknown: 47:30

Girl, you are on fire. Oh my gosh, she

Thais Gibson: 47:34

can share it. I love it. I love this stuff a lot. It's helped me a lot. So

Laura Khalil: 47:38

fabulous. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thais Gibson: 47:40

Thank you. This is so much fun.

Laura Khalil: 47:43

I want to thank you for joining me and remember to subscribe to your favorite app so you can stay up to date. And I would love your review. If you've enjoyed this episode. Please leave a review and comment on Apple podcasts. You can also keep in touch with me online. You can find me on LinkedIn and I'm also on Instagram at force of badassery. All that information will be available in the show notes. Until next time, stay brave