Big Deal Energy

Overcoming Sales Avoidance on LinkedIn with Michelle J Raymond

• Laura Khalil

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Picture yourself at the helm of a thriving business. You're connected with business leaders and decision makers worldwide; you're considered a trusted ally, a savvy strategist. Sounds like a dream? 

LinkedIn coach Michelle J Raymond wants to make it your reality.

In this episode we discuss:

  • how to build business relationships on LinkedIn
  • who to connect with on LinkedIn, if you're not sure who to talk to
  • signs you might be sales avoidant
  • how to over with your fear of sales


But it doesn't stop there. We examine strategies to revitalize your LinkedIn profile, reflecting your growth and invigorating your presence on the platform.

Whether you're a LinkedIn novice or a seasoned user, this episode promises a treasure trove of actionable insights. So, are you ready to make LinkedIn work for your business? Tune in and let's get started.

Follow Michelle J Raymond on LinkedIn
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Solo service providers can be just as profitable as million dollar businesses. You don't need more staff, more products, or a bigger audience. Join 1000+ email subscribers who are learning how to sign bigger contracts every week --> https://laurakhalil.ck.page/



Speaker 1:

Hey everyone, it is Laura Calil, your business bestie, and you're listening to Big Deal Energy, and we have a real treat today because I am joined by the fabulous Misselle Misselle. What the fuck is that? Michelle, michelle, michelle J Raymond, okay, let me, okay, all right, let me tell you about Michelle. No, I'm keeping all of this in. This is all going in, michelle. We're just going to keep going.

Speaker 1:

This podcast is unedited and a little bit of a shit show, but it's going to get better when you learn about Michelle. Michelle is here to talk about unlocking LinkedIn's potential for business growth and if you're a consultant and agency owner, I want you to keep listening. She is an international authority on LinkedIn company pages and B2B growth strategies. She is a go-to corporate trainer and two-time bestselling LinkedIn author who educates businesses on translating their offerings into lucrative LinkedIn opportunities. Did I hear money? Yes, let's keep going. That's not all. You can gain insider knowledge from her on her two popular podcasts, because one is not enough for Michelle LinkedIn for B2B growth and the LinkedIn branding show holy shit. As well as her highly ranked YouTube channel, which is at LinkedIn for B2B growth. Michelle. I don't think that anyone has ever been introduced in such a sloppy manner before, but I would like to say that just comes from a place of deep enthusiasm. So welcome to the program.

Speaker 2:

Look it had me at fabulous I was in. I will say that it will be memorable and that's what matters, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, now I want to go back to something that you have in your bio, because you had me at the phrase translating their offerings into lucrative LinkedIn opportunities. I find that so interesting because most people who are not on LinkedIn do not realize the lucrative opportunities, the lucrative landscape that is on LinkedIn, and either they aren't using it they think LinkedIn is dead or they have absolutely no idea how, what the heck to do with it Can you just talk about for those people like, why should they be paying attention to LinkedIn?

Speaker 2:

LinkedIn is the platform where business is done. It's that simple. I'm one of those people that goes fishing where the fish are, so, for me, I want to reach decision makers. Now, linkedin stats 65% of people on the platform influence decision making within businesses. So I want to talk to those people. So, for me, 20 years in B2B sales, linkedin's the B2B platform. I've spent the last nearly 10 of them selling on LinkedIn.

Speaker 2:

So what I've discovered is I just want to talk to the right people when they're in business mode, not when they're just consuming content and scrolling mindlessly. It can't be just me that does that all day, every day, but ultimately it's. Why are you on LinkedIn? To do business? Now we're just about to tick over a billion people on the platform. We have around 60 million company pages. It keeps growing. This isn't a platform that's dying after 20 years and ultimately has no competition. So why am I all in on LinkedIn? It's for those reasons. I just want to talk to the people that are out there making buying decisions and opportunity wise man. I mean, I have so many that I could use it as examples. It's just crazy. So, yeah, that's why I love it. That simple.

Speaker 1:

Wow, a billion people. Is that larger than any social media platform?

Speaker 2:

No, it's actually one of the smallest when you compare it to Facebook and Instagram and other platforms and considering LinkedIn has been around for 20 years now, so it's the trusted old faithful that's been around, but probably the uncool cousin to some of the other more popular platforms that have grown really quickly, like TikTok, for instance. So LinkedIn isn't the place where people kind of immediately think, oh, I want to go hang out there, but for me, my time on social is all about how can I use it to grow my business. So when it comes to that and I narrow it down, this is the platform for me, because that's where my audience hangs out and so, yeah, that's where I am as well.

Speaker 1:

I will say my business has grown I don't want to say entirely because of LinkedIn, but largely because of the business development work that I have done on LinkedIn, because people are there to actually meet people to do business with, as opposed, for example, to my TikTok and Michelle. I'm going to give you a heads up. I want to hear what the TikTok algorithm thinks you're into, because here's what the TikTok algorithm thinks I'm into. I get these TikToks of men in prison who are on a phone it's like a dating service. I swear to God. And they put them on TikTok and I'm like why are you sending this to me? It's so like I know people love the new hot thing, the new exciting thing. Those are great for entertainment. But I am not going to meet a decision maker on TikTok, probably not in a federal penitentiary. Maybe I would, who knows? I mean, there's a lot of white collar crimes out there, but I'm just curious who does TikTok think you are?

Speaker 2:

Good news is it doesn't really know me. So I set up a profile when it first started and I haven't really used it, except if someone sends me a video or something pops up and LinkedIn to go and look at stuff, and I'll tell you why. Because you can go down that rabbit hole that is one of the most powerful algorithms I have ever come across and spend hours. And I remember a friend of mine. I said to him you know, go and check out TikTok. This is when it first started and he came back to me the next time we went out for dinner and he goes Michelle, I'm getting all of these, like you know, little people clowns like riding unicycles and random stuff. I was like what did you search for to get on that? So here's the thing I don't use Facebook. I very rarely use Instagram. I don't use TikTok. I'm not on Twitter. I literally have my LinkedIn presence, my podcasts and YouTube.

Speaker 2:

Now why did I do that? Partly because I, you know, I'm a small business owner. I have limited resources and I don't need any help getting distracted. I'm very good at that all by myself. I created podcasts and YouTube as my backups because they live for longer and they're searchable and people have an intent when they go to YouTube. They're looking up you know purpose questions like how do I set up a LinkedIn company page? So I want to be seen as the person who has the answers. So for me it has literally been a. When I first set up my own business, I wanted to be everywhere, like Laura, like I heard people say don't have all your eggs in one basket and logically my brain went yup, that's a good idea. But I found I hated these other platforms, like Twitter was just. I was like what is going on here? I hate it.

Speaker 2:

And that was immediately no no way, I was like it's the only place I've been full on trolls. You know from trying to yeah. And this is you want to know what my I was guilty of what and this was my tweet, or whatever they're called these days was literally. Can you please recommend female marketers? I'm looking for marketing quotes for the LinkedIn branding book.

Speaker 2:

That's it Okay, and I got absolutely reamed by one person specifically, who then, like other people, joined in about why I didn't ask for women in minorities for their quotes. And I was like because when I Googled trying to find quotes, all I could find was Gary V, simon Sinek, you know all the usual Jeff Bezos quotes and all I I thought, if I go narrow, I'm not even going to find anyone, because I can't even find like women in general. And I got slammed and it was one of those moments I was like I don't have time for this, I don't need to be in a place that has that kind of you know kind of community spirit going on, which is why I love LinkedIn, because I've been using it, yeah, nearly 10 years for social selling and I don't think I've ever been trolled. Maybe once I've had someone you know kind of say something, but it was obviously someone that you know was just on the platform causing trouble, but you just blocked them and they're gone.

Speaker 1:

So my experience on.

Speaker 2:

Twitter. Yeah it's a no, for me A hard no.

Speaker 1:

Well, we're in agreement. First of all, I really like what you say. You have to know you're curated as to where you show up online. You're curated in LinkedIn, podcasting and YouTube, which I love because you are doing it with a lot of intention behind what you're creating. You mentioned a term as you were talking about LinkedIn. You mentioned the term social selling. Tell us what is that? Even? Is that different from regular selling? What is social selling and how does it sort of hook into LinkedIn?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for me, I keep the definition really simple. It is how do you, online, find the right people, get them to connect and then nurture those relationships so that, when they're ready to buy your top of mind and the one that they can recall and they reach out to you and keep you in that mix. And so that's how simple it is find the right people, connect with them, nurture those relationships and stay top of mind. That, to me, is social selling. Now, I come from 20 years of traditional selling in B2B, so I was the person as the account manager or sales manager as my career moved on, that went out and visited people. I went to trade shows. I paraded. Overseas visitors come and buy our stuff.

Speaker 2:

I've done all of those and what I've discovered was, over time, the maths didn't add up. Like I remember. I started on LinkedIn because in my new job they said here's 80 customers, here's 10,000 ingredients, because I come from the beauty industry, go and sell them. Now they were spread around Australia. Now Australia is the size of the US. Can you imagine in one month trying to reach 80 people with 10,000 ingredients? Simple maths, my friends. It didn't add up.

Speaker 2:

So LinkedIn I started on it literally as a place where I could create content and start to reach more people at once. And it just over that. I went oh look, you've got to have a community to talk to first. So you know, I kind of went around it the wrong way but learnt over time. But for me it's how do you take some of those processes that work offline and do them online? Some of the good habits, but there's also a whole new way of selling online, because here's the problem that we've got no one trusts people on LinkedIn because they're getting spammed by players, right? How many messages a day do you get from buy my stuff? That's completely irrelevant. Like I know you get them, hey buy my franchise.

Speaker 1:

Yes, oh my God, the franchise. People are all over me.

Speaker 2:

What are you putting out there? Franchise is in jailbait, Like what is going on in your algorithms.

Speaker 1:

I don't know, maybe it knows that once in a while I go to McDonald's for a McFlurry and it's like you know, because I really love those little Oreo McFlurries, and maybe somehow it's all connected and it's like, hey, this bitch loves McDonald's, let's try to sell her one. I don't know what's going on and I don't know where the jailbait is coming from. Michelle, I do not know why people in prison, the whole prison thing, just mystifies me. But back to your point. Let me not get too off track here. You said it's about finding the right people.

Speaker 1:

I want to just start there, because one of the number one questions people ask me, and they probably ask you, is how do I know who to reach out to? I cannot tell you how many times I had a nickel for every time someone asked me that question. I might be Jeff Bezos, okay. So how do you address that type of question? Well, who do I reach out to? What would you? Because clearly a lot of people are reaching out to the wrong types of people and we're getting the wrong types of solicitation. So where should they start when they are trying to figure out who to reach out to?

Speaker 2:

Well, I know you and I are both not in camp spray and pray. I send to a thousand people in hope that one or two will respond. Let's dial it back and, like you, I think we go back to the step before. What are your goals for your time on LinkedIn? Because LinkedIn can drain your time just as much as those other platforms. And if you're relying on that home feed to magically pop up business opportunities, I don't want to break your heart, but it's not going to happen, you know, or it might happen. Really, it happens from intentionally creating a community.

Speaker 2:

And for me I always say to people start off close. Who do you work with? Who have you worked with? Who do you know in the industry? Your existing customers? Let's just start there to start building a community. And then it becomes one degree of separation. Who knows who? And then I tend to tell my clients look, let's expand out a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Who run your industry bodies? Who maybe is involved in the regulatory side of your business or industry? You know and start. What are the periphery types of businesses that supply the same audience but maybe in a different way, and even competitors. You know because ultimately you share a passion and, let's be clear every industry, everyone knows everyone. I don't care what people say.

Speaker 2:

The world is so small these days. Most people have worked at multiple companies within an industry and then, even if you're a consultant, you've gone out on your own, you still typically gravitate mostly back to that industry. So for me, it's start with building that small community, and you also have to have goals. Like, before you even jump on any social platform, what are your goals for your time on there? And so for me, having a targeted list is helpful, but I know for some consultants you may not be able to do that in the very early days.

Speaker 2:

But you have to start somewhere. Who are your dream clients that you would love to work with, and then we'll work our way backwards. Now my method, what I use, is I want you to connect with as many people as possible at that business, and that is no different to when I was out, you know, pounding the pavement, visiting clients. I wanted to know the guy in the warehouse, the person who ran accounts, the receptionist, all of those people you don't know who has fun at the Christmas party, you don't know who has worked together the longest, you don't know who hates each other loves each other, and they could be having a lunchroom conversation that someone else overhears. So, for me, find those targets and then go really deep, rather than trying to spread yourself really thin.

Speaker 1:

I hope everybody really just took that in, because that is honest, that is so brilliant, that entire strategy, and that really is the key. You know, the only thing I'll add is I, you know, one of the things that my clients do is they're typically selling into larger companies and they will typically say well, who do? If I just know the right person to talk to, I can make the sale and I'm like first of all, sit your ass down, that right person. If there was one economic buyer, one person to sign the contract which, as you and I know, in large deals it is typically multiple people signing off on it, it's not typically one anymore that person is getting hammered 24-7 by people just like you who think, well, if I just find the right person and I just get their email, then they'll meet with me. Michelle, what do you think about that?

Speaker 2:

Look, I agree, things like buying committees exist and what you've just described there is exactly why CEOs, heads of directors of, don't want to be active on LinkedIn, because those people that just spray and pray and add no value buy my stuff. I'll give you the handy tip you cannot make anyone buy your stuff that does not have a need for it in their business, and especially in a financially tough year like we've got around the world, they're not just spending money because they've got a bit of spare budget. Like planning that buying decision, that whole process takes time and you've got to do the work and you think you can just send one email and people are going to go, yeah sure, like, come on, we don't buy like that and you shouldn't sell like that. And here's the thing that I discovered over 20 years of selling.

Speaker 2:

When I first started and you could probably relate to this as the sales rep or sales whatever business development person, I had all the power. I had the knowledge of the products. I knew what we had. I knew a lot about the industry. You couldn't just jump onto Google Like you couldn't just jump onto Google because that's how old I am, you actually had to.

Speaker 1:

Oh same, you had old school, pick up the phone.

Speaker 2:

Brochure, a catalog or whatever. You had to talk to people Now. Now, everything's at the buyer's fingertips. They actually don't need you and they're bringing you in much later into the conversation. Maybe 80% of their research is done and they've just got a few questions. But what are you doing during that period of the 80%? Are you hiding in the backgrounds or are you doing the hard work?

Speaker 2:

And I think what I've found is most people on LinkedIn. It's that immediate gratification If I send an email, you will respond straight away and you will buy my stuff straight away. Because, why? Because I think I'm amazing. No, these things, my leads come from people I connected with years ago, not even most recently, but they just pop up going. I've been watching your stuff for a long time. Something has changed in my business New marketing manager, new decision maker, more budget allowed. Part of the marketing strategy has changed. We're ready now. We weren't ready before. And so this is where I just get so frustrated that people give up Laura, and they give up and they've only been at it for like a month and I'm like, oh, forget it.

Speaker 2:

Imagine if I did that in my sales role, just put my feet back up on the desk and went, I'm done. I went out and saw everyone. They didn't want to buy from me. It's not my problem. No.

Speaker 1:

You'd be out of a job. I mean, you got to feed yourself. You know, I'll say one of the. There's so much richness in what you just stated. I want to highlight a few things.

Speaker 1:

This is a long game. Please do not assume somebody is going to just magically want to do business with you Now. Sometimes there are people who are ready. You have captured them at the right moment and they found you and it's perfect and that's amazing.

Speaker 1:

Other times it can take longer and I will tell you all this, and I think Michelle is absolutely going to agree with me it's about having the right offer for the right market at the right time, and what most people do not do is hang around consistently enough so that, when it is the right time and the right offer and the right market and the right person, they're ready to buy it. Most people give up way too quickly when maybe it just needed to wait a year. But if you keep putting it out every day, you're going to be there and then, when it's time, they're going to see your face and your content and how you solve problems and then just be like oh now, now we're ready, but people give up. I don't know that's, I'll get off my soapbox for a sec. Don't you feel that, michelle?

Speaker 2:

I actually you took me back to one of my sales managers when I started in the beauty industry selling chemicals, and I would get shattered because we were selling commodities that if you missed out on the price by one cent, no matter how good your relationship with that client, they would buy elsewhere like one cent. And I was shattered. I was like but they really like me and I've serviced them and I've done all the right things. And my boss, he just said to me Michelle, right product, right price, right time. If it's not that, move on to the next thing. And you do not have time to sit around crying about this. If one cent you lost the deal, move on, get the next 10. And I remember him saying that to me because in that space it was about right price is the most important thing to them at that time. And I didn't have the right price and so there's nothing I could do about that. I wasn't going to sway them, I wasn't going to change them. Of course I got a little bit smarter about it in the future, but you learn to play that game and it's the mentality of I got to know whatever. To know for now means nothing. It's got nothing to do with me. They just don't have a need. Next, and then you know it's social selling.

Speaker 2:

For me, the word that I use is nurture. It doesn't mean you ignore them. You have to keep maintaining that relationship with people and you get a feel for it on LinkedIn, Like if you reach out and connect and someone responds with that thanks for connecting. That's an opening to start that conversation. But ultimately, nurture them, support their posts, attend to their events, send them helpful content. You know, don't bombard them with useless rubbish. No one's got time for that. But ultimately, for me, the word nurture is so powerful.

Speaker 2:

And do you hear anyone talking about on LinkedIn? No, we talk about hooks and call to action. And, wow, look at what chat TPD did for my or mid journey, did for my images, what chat TPD did for my words. And I'm like what are you talking about? About building relationships, Because here's the thing relationships pay off. I don't care. That's why, when I'm asleep, the relationships I have with people around the world, they're selling on my behalf. So I wake up to oh, Laura's told me to reach out to you because I want to know about growing my business on LinkedIn. You know it happens to me daily where people around the world think of me. Why? Because when they're asleep, I think of them, you know, and so those relationships are just so important.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, and underrated on the platform.

Speaker 2:

It's a two-way thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I love that and you know what I love. It feels really good as opposed to selling or social selling. Feeling like ooh, like I'm trying to get something from you Like completely, which is not y'all. That's not really what selling is. Selling is solving problems. That's really all it is and, you know, just being a value to people. But the way that Michelle is talking about it and nurturing relationships and building friendships, I have to say, michelle, we have so much. I have had so much fun with you chatting off the air Y'all. If you could see those conversations. We are just having the time of our life and there is a part of it it's like one day Michelle is going to come to America or I'm going to go to Australia and we're all going to go out for dinner and like just have fun and I just that's because I enjoy you. But that's how I want to feel with the people that I engage with on that platform, because this, you know, it's important that we enjoy the people we spend time with, right, oh?

Speaker 2:

100% and I will be there in February for social media marketing world, so I'll be in San Diego and a few other places. So it may just happen. But the thing that I love is, if it happens, we just pick up this conversation and meet face to face and nothing. No one blinks that, oh, I'm from the other side of the world and we've only ever talked over Zoom or whatever. No one even blinks at that. We just go oh, hey, bestie, here we go, pick up where we left off. And I've, you know, met some people like that from the other side of the world that have come here to Australia and shown them places, and it just took it to that next level. But you know, I want to come back to what you said, because you and I have the same context for selling, which I think will help people.

Speaker 2:

People say to me, like you know, why do you love a selling? Because I genuinely love it, and a lot of consultants out there will be rocking in a corner going. I can think of nothing worse. Well, I'll give you the hand that you tip. You need a really powerful context. Or you might as well go and work for somebody else, right? Because otherwise you are going to be begging on a corner for food, and that's not what we want.

Speaker 2:

My context is the same as yours. It is problem solving and helping people. The more I do of both, the more I sell. It is literally that simple for me, and why wouldn't? I want to do more of both? So, and that's why consultants go out and set up their own business because they want to have a bigger impact.

Speaker 2:

You know you want to use your experience and knowledge to help other people grow, and so why not Like? So stop calling it selling, call it whatever you want, but have a powerful context and think about it. What's it like when you work with someone and they have those light bulb moments? That's what I want more of, and the dollars could become part of that, but they're not my focus. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't wanna take over the world and have a huge business and all that kind of stuff. I absolutely do. But when I go into a call, that's not the call that I'm having. I'm having the call where I connect with someone and go I have got what you need to grow. So why wouldn't I want someone else to have that? And so I really love that you said it. I was like we're just twinning all the way in this.

Speaker 1:

We are twinning, but it's really true, it's sales. You know my mom, so I've never I don't think I've talked about my mom on here. My mom sold gold. She is a true Middle Eastern woman. Okay, we love our gold, and my mom was hawking gold. Okay, and I learned all of my not all, I don't mean not all a lot of my sales stuff from my mom, who basically Michelle could have been, and I've said this for years she honestly could have been a cult leader. I swear to God, my mother when she was younger was so charismatic that people would follow this woman to the end of the earth. Now, she never did become a cult leader, but she did sell a lot of gold.

Speaker 1:

That would have been a cool story. Yeah, plot twist. No, somehow. Somehow we're on culty vibes Now I'm gonna get all this cult TikTok stuff now that we've been talking about this. This is great, michelle, thank you so much so.

Speaker 1:

But the way that she did it is she was friendly, she liked people, she wanted to genuinely take an interest in their lives, and while you and I may not be selling gold, we're selling services. Those services can reap huge benefits in people's life, and I really feel that we are as consultants. We deny people the transformation that we can offer. If we don't sell to them, you deny them the opportunity to experience something great. And so I ask everyone who's like, sales avoidant or scared to sell I'm just gonna get real. Do you actually really believe that what you sell helps someone? Because if you believe it helps someone, stop hiding. We need it in the world. The world would be a different place. I'm gonna toot our horns If Michelle weren't here and if I weren't here, helping uplift other business owners. Right, we believe in what we do. We're here to help you. If we just sat back and thought, oh, I don't wanna.

Speaker 2:

You know, I don't wanna bother anyone, so I'll redesign my brochure I'll put some new colors or a new fonts and I think it's the brochures folds, but no one ever saw the brochures. They saw the brochure because you wouldn't reach out and connect, and I think that's the thing. Like you know, I read a saying on somebody else's profile the other day that says sales-born marketing bread. That's me. Marketing's my second string, and some of the things that I find is that people hide behind the new website, a new brochure, get somebody else to do it, but if you don't actually have conversations with people and that's how, if you wanna know, if you're sales avoidant, you know when your focus is solely on marketing and I love the conversation that you had on my podcast with me it's still going around in my mind is that you have to earn the rights to market to people. That has stuck with me from that conversation, that thing that you said and I just see so many consultants around me that I look at them and go. It's not about another post, it's not about a new font, it is not about redesigning the same thing 10 times over and that's very different to a rebrand which I'm going through. But you know it's what you do to avoid just reaching out to someone, and I love that you called it out, cause I think how selfish of you and I'm gonna put it out there is absolutely purely selfish that you have the thing that would make the world of difference to somebody else and you keep it to yourself because you're so focused on what it will feel like for you. And I was kind of thinking about when you were talking about your mom where did I fall in love with sales or why am I okay with it? And it was actually my grandma that you know was going through my mind as you were thinking about this. And it's that whole being okay with no. So here's how I think it became part of me is when I was younger. My family grew up. All of my you know kind of relatives were part of the Salvation Army, which I know you've got there in the US as well. Oh, yeah, right.

Speaker 2:

So we would go and do what like Red Shield Appeal, which was door knocking hey, would you like to make a donation? And as a five year old or younger, I was doing it since I was born, going with my grandma holding her hand, and we would literally just go up to the next door. Hey, would you like to make a donation, they would say yes or no and you would just do whatever and then move on to the next door. And our job was to get that whole area done. And you know, I remember running between doors regardless of whether someone said yes or no, and if they said no, you would just kind of go, that's okay, we hope you have a great day and move on to the next one. And you don't know what someone else is going through. You know and that's still really important lesson that I look back on now as you were sharing that and go.

Speaker 2:

I just wanted to get onto the next person and then we would hear stories of, oh, I'd love to donate because, you know, blah, blah, blah, someone helped someone, someone helped this, someone did that. When we came to Australia, this is, you know, the Salvation Army, metis, you know, whatever. There's all kinds of things, but I just remember it was that whole. I was so excited to ask the next person and it had nothing to do with me as such, although, to get back to your Macca story, there was always like a voucher for a cheeseburger. At the end, I have to say I was probably partly partly, you know driven by to get one of those, but that's funny, oh my gosh, but it's that whole.

Speaker 2:

When did we lose being excited and passionate about getting to the next person to help them and just being okay with whatever happens? It's not about you, it's not personal. Move on to the next one and see if you can help someone else. And I think that's just why I love selling so much is because I have what can make a difference to other people. And I've also found I have to confess that, as I've got busy recently doing things like rebranding and other things that are going on, I stopped taking those actions. You know, and it has an immediate impact Stop taking actions. I stopped having calls booked into my calendar. Like you know, you have to do it consistently and not give up, regardless of what's going on in your business. I think you actually have to make time and make it a priority to do business development, even if you hate it. You just have to switch that context up.

Speaker 1:

I, you do it's. I describe it often with my clients like well, would you go to exercise for 30 minutes a day? You know you work out your muscles right To stay healthy and fit. And you work out your business muscles, your business development muscles, to also have a healthy and financially fit business. And if we don't, if you just sit on the couch I mean, there are people on the internet and I'm sure they exist on LinkedIn who will have you believe that you can just sit on the couch and watch money come rolling in. I'd also like to point out those are also known as snake oil salesmen. That isn't real. It's not real.

Speaker 2:

You know every Build a funnel and they will come.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my God, that didn't get me started. You know people, there's so much people self-flagellate. People really get down because they feel that they're not a quote unquote million dollar business and those, some of those goals and metrics are vanity. They're not reality and you don't need them. And I'll just I know we're getting a little off topic, but this is really important to say for everyone who is listening or watching this. One of my clients worked with many of those quote unquote gurus okay, the people who claim to have the Ferraris and the Lamborghinis and the fancy this and the that and their million dollars and they're selling you that. And you know what she said, which was so interesting. She said, Laura, you have no idea how many of those folks are on the brink of bankruptcy and they'll never tell you. You'll never see it, but many of them are one month, one launch away from not making payroll Right, and that is a freaking scary place to be, but they won't tell you that, you know. So it's one of those things.

Speaker 2:

You just can't believe everything that's on there. But you know, and I see it all the time where people want growth hacks or how to beat the algorithm or those kind of conversations, and I know they're not my kind of clients. They, and you know, part of my rebranding is to further repel those kind of people. My clients I love working with, probably similar to you. They have a genuine passion for helping other people, they want to build relationships, they're prepared to do the work and it's that whole delayed gratification. It's going to take effort, it's going to take time and in a financial world that we've got going on right now, probably take twice as long, because people aren't just spending and they're not just cashed up and there's stuff going on and we're on the back of everything that happened in the world with COVID. People are holding on to their pennies a little bit more than what they were before.

Speaker 2:

So how are you going to be the person that stands out, that goes the extra mile, that is willing to do things that no one else will, I swear to God? That's why my business has grown so much. I just won't give up. I am that person that's like I don't really want to do this today, but I've got to do it. You don't get a choice and you know there are times I do, you know, with gritted teeth, and there are times I do it. You know I jump out of bed and I love it. But what I've discovered as a business owner I've only owned my business for like three years or so is you just have to get up and keep going every day.

Speaker 2:

So I hope that there are people that are listening to this that maybe you've lost your spark, maybe you lost a bit of that passion, and if we can remind you in this conversation that there are people out there that are desperate for your services, that you have convinced yourself because one person said no, that nobody wants your stuff, and you gave up, it's time to get back in the game, like and you know if I can have that chat with you today and share our passion about why it's important and maybe someone sitting there going, yeah, you're right. That person said, no, I made out that my program was rubbish, that I'm rubbish, that I don't know what I'm doing, that no one else wants my stuff and all the other crap that our brains tell us to keep us safe, like if just one person gets out there and starts taking action again, we're going to be in a better place, and you know, that's what I'm here to do Wow, okay.

Speaker 1:

So before we started recording, I said to Michelle I said listen, I know when you and I start talking, I said let's do 30 minutes, but I can tell we're just going to start going, because that's how we are. We're just I don't know. It's just so much fun to chat with you. So I want to ask you a final question before we wrap up, For those who are listening to this and they're thinking okay, I feel now like I want to get my LinkedIn spark back. I want to get my mojo back. I want to dive into LinkedIn. I'm a consultant or I'm an agency owner. What are I don't know Michelle, what are two or three or whatever you want to share of the things that maybe they need to be paying most attention to as they reinvigorate themselves and their profiles or experience on LinkedIn?

Speaker 2:

Okay, I think it's one of those things that let's just take it a fresh start, maybe because it's spring here in Australia, like, and you know we're just heading into that warmer weather. But maybe take a moment to go back and have a look at your profile and I've just done this myself recently. I realized that I'd grown and changed over time and my business had evolved, but I hadn't reflected that in my profile. It was still probably 12 months ago, realistically, and it can often be those minor tweaks where you call out who you want to work with and how you work with them and what difference you make. If you really create a profile that speaks to that, that's going to attract more of the right kind of people to you. So just go and spend some time and go. Is that where I'm really at right now, or does it need some tweaks? You know you don't have to rewrite the whole thing, but have a look at banners, headlines and about sections If you can do nothing else. Those three things For me, your next goal is have some conversations with people, coffee chats I don't care who they are.

Speaker 2:

If you need to get back on the horse. Find a friend, find somebody else that's passionate about what you do, find somebody that disagrees with what you do and have a conversation. Learn from people you know, but have conversations, because when we get stuck in our own head, no good comes from it, and I think the more we overthink things or maybe it's just me that's guilty of that, but no good comes from overthinking. But if you take the sales pressure away and just go, I want to have a conversation with another human and find out what's going on, get interested in other people, move that focus away from yourself, there is, you know, so much that can be done. And if you're just starting out, there's the most unglamorous part of LinkedIn that no one talks about because it's not cool. It's called the search bar. Use it. Type in a word for your industry keyword, type in a company name, type in anything but get out of your own little space and start growing, and you know that's what I've been focused on myself.

Speaker 2:

I realized I felt like I was just being surrounded by more of the same same, and I think I need fresh life. I need to inject new things into my feed, and the only way you'll do it is not hanging out in the feed. It's that search bar. Not cool, not glamorous, not the thing that anyone likes to talk about, but one of the most powerful things on LinkedIn that you can do to reinvigorate, find new people, build your community, because they're the ones that will keep you going. They're the ones that are going to be cheering you on Well. Sometimes you need someone to kick your butt and say what's going on here, right, like you need a mix of people, and you know you're not going to find them just scrolling the feed. Not going to happen.

Speaker 1:

I think that last point that really hits home for me, because we all kind of get stuck in our little echo chamber right, and LinkedIn doesn't now or yet have the functionality of a TikTok to serve you the types of content that it is predicting you would enjoy. So, absent of that, go search. In fact, I think that's a great call to action for everyone who's listening to this Go expand your network. Find more people you want to bring in and more people you want to get to know, more people you can learn from, more people you can help Wow.

Speaker 2:

Find a topic that's just of interest. It doesn't all have to be work, work, work on there because you just it might be something you're passionate about. It might be sustainability, it might be hybrid working, it could be anything. For me, I always keep an eye on the beauty industry that I came from. Why? Because I love that stuff. Yes, I don't work directly, but I just love seeing what's new. It's that innovation. I take some of those ideas and I bring them across, but find things that light you up and people that light you up, and definitely look for ways that you can get out of your own little space. That's what I'm really working hard on myself, because I realized that I wasn't enjoying things and it was because I was. I love to read content where people inspire me because they make me think they have a different opinion or something unique. Everyone's got that voice. I think if I could leave people with one last tip.

Speaker 2:

When we wrote the LinkedIn branding book, we started with mindset, because if you don't have the right mindset, you won't do any of the stuff that we've been speaking about today. All those fears get in the way. I just think if you can just switch that up and get in the game. It's just the best place to hang out and grow your business. That's what I'm passionate about just as much because, like you, it's like this.

Speaker 2:

I help people grow their business. They employ more people. That means that more people have choices and I live in a better community. That community is global for me because I work globally, but that's what's in it for me is to live in a better world. Now, that might sound a bit like airy-fairy, but there are so many dots connected in my life that led me to that point where I am good at helping businesses grow, just like whoever's listening is good at what they do. Get out there and share it. It's time to get off the sidelines and get in the game, and I will get off my soapbox now. Sorry about that. I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1:

Actually I'm not sorry. Can I take that back? I'm actually not sorry, because I care.

Speaker 2:

I actually care about people, which I think we've watered down, that we're actually passionate and care when we create content, and it's a bit of a bugbear of mine at the moment Get out there and share why you actually do what you do. Why does it matter? What difference will it make? Tag me in those posts. Tag Laura. Let us know that you're doing it so we can join in and support, because I would love to see more of that.

Speaker 1:

I actually. I love that. Share your why? Why does this stuff matter? Why, yeah, I love it. I love it, Michelle. Okay, I am wildly inspired and I feel reinvigorated, and I bet our audience does too. So for those people who are like I need more Michelle in my life, where do I find this woman? Where should we send them? Where do they go to learn more?

Speaker 2:

This is going to be so mind blowing, but you're going to find me on LinkedIn, so I want you to look for Michelle, j, the initial J, raymond and the reason that J is in there not to make myself sound smarter, because I did read something that says if you use your middle initial, people think you're smart. That's not why I do it. It's not it.

Speaker 1:

There are thousands of people. You are brilliant. You are brilliant. Hang on a second.

Speaker 2:

I'm happy to own the brilliance, but that's not why I did that. It is literally because there are so many Michelle Raymans on the platform. So the J is how you'll find me is I'm the only one with that. So it's what makes me special and unique, and everyone's got their thing, and so if you are stuck and don't know how to bring that out, just reach out and ask for help. That's why people like Laura and I exist to help people find their voice and, yeah, it's just fun. So thank you for letting me just stand on my soapbox and share, because I've had enough. I think I've reached that point where I've had enough of people playing small, sitting on the sidelines and other people wear the consequences. You know, it impacts families, it impacts choices. So, yeah, I have to lead by example, I think, is it? So please reach out. I'd love to hear from people that listened. What are you passionate about? Let us know. You know can't have too many people in my world that are passionate about changing things.

Speaker 1:

You know, michelle, I just have to say one more thing. This show is never going to end. I just have to say one more thing because something you just said really hit me, which is, a lot of people who are really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really good at sales are sometimes not great at delivery. They love more the hunt than they do actually delivering the product. And for people who are listening to this, who may be sales avoidant, I want you to consider that you are probably extremely good at client delivery and if you can learn the sales piece like watch out world, because good salespeople who are also good at delivering the product or service are not a dime a dozen, but they're a superpower. When you can cultivate both of those and I'm just telling y'all, you are on the brink of superpower.

Speaker 2:

That's a power combo and I won't add anything more because we will keep going.

Speaker 1:

But you can, michelle, we could just, I just love this conversation.

Speaker 2:

you know unhinged, unleashed, like whatever the words are, but I think it's just important, because we put so much restraint on ourselves, to fit in little boxes. And consultants don't fit in boxes in my experience. So get out there if we can help. You know where to find us.

Speaker 1:

I love it. Thank you so much for being with us everyone. Thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed this, share it with a friend of yours, share it with a business bestie and stay subscribed. We'd love to see you down the road in another episode. All right, take care everyone. Thank you, michelle Cheers.